In this powerful exploration of divine purpose, we're reminded that God's plan for our lives is knowable and accessible. The key message is that by earnestly seeking God, we can uncover our unique mission. This echoes Jeremiah 29:13, where God promises, 'You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.' We're challenged to pay attention to the passions and burdens God places on our hearts, as these often point to our divine calling. The journey of discovering God's purpose is portrayed not as a one-time event, but as an evolving process of deepening understanding and revelation. This perspective encourages us to embrace the mystery of faith and view our failures as part of the learning journey. As we navigate our path, we're urged to shift from a performance-oriented mindset to one of resting in God's grace, trusting His guidance rather than relying solely on our own efforts.
In this powerful exploration of divine purpose, we're reminded that God's plan for our lives is knowable and accessible. The key message is that by earnestly seeking God, we can uncover our unique mission. This echoes Jeremiah 29:13, where God promises, 'You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.' We're challenged to pay attention to the passions and burdens God places on our hearts, as these often point to our divine calling. The journey of discovering God's purpose is portrayed not as a one-time event, but as an evolving process of deepening understanding and revelation. This perspective encourages us to embrace the mystery of faith and view our failures as part of the learning journey. As we navigate our path, we're urged to shift from a performance-oriented mindset to one of resting in God's grace, trusting His guidance rather than relying solely on our own efforts.
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Welcome to the Salt Leadership Podcast. Real people, real conversations, and a shared mission to lead and love our cities well. Cities don't change because of one person. They change when everyone steps in to lead. In your home, in your work, in your community, and in your city, you have influence. And this podcast is here to fuel that calling.
Prepare to be inspired. Today, we're diving deep with the visionary force behind SALLT, West Lane. For those of you who don't know, Wes was born and raised in Oklahoma City. He received both his undergraduate and law degree from the University of Oklahoma, Boomer Sooner. Boomer Sooner. Boomer Sooner. All the things. Dedicated over two decades to fiercely advocating justice as Oklahoma County prosecutor. But his journey didn't end there. Wes founded Salt and Light Leadership Training as an answer to the call of God to raise up leaders to use their gifts and talents for the glory of God. Welcome to the show, Wes.
You know what kind of pressure you put on me when you start off, when the whole kickoff is, prepare to be inspired. Yeah, be inspired. Oh, crud. No pressure. Help me. My prayer life just went up. Well, let's just kick it off. I've heard you state before that you have a personal vision and mission for your life. Can you tell us what that is and how you how you arrived at that? Yeah, you know, I tell you what, this is a part of my learning journey in which God turned out to be way bigger than I thought he was in that time. So this was 19, I think it was 1999. I'm a young prosecutor. I'm running the Juvenile Division at the time, and I'm watching the Reverend Charles Stanley on TV on a Saturday night. which may speak to, that's what you did on Saturday nights. No, no, we were having fun, fun, fun. But this was really good. And so he looks into the camera, and he's looking right at me, and he says, you can know the purpose of God for your life. And I went, I mean, it was like, you could do that. Which, you know, like many of us, you hear something like that 100 times. And the 101st time, it registers. Well, that's what it did for me. And so I sent off for the materials and he sends stuff, things to listen to, a workbook. And I spent weeks, weeks, because it was asking me just very provocative questions. things making me prayerfully contemplate different things. What are the burdens on my heart? What moves me? What passions? What spiritual gifts? Just a lot of stuff. And so in the end, I just spent time to where I was ultimately cranked out just a short... answer to, why is Wes on earth? And it was this, to exhort and encourage the body of Christ in an understanding that God has not changed, He wants His children to be powerfully relevant and significant to the shalom, the well-being of their community, and His omnipotence stands ready to see to our success. Now, that's a mouthful, But when breaking it down for someone listening, I didn't get a unique deal. People, as you all know, you've heard me say this a time. Thank you for even staying awake when you've heard me say this a hundred times. Maybe it's new to the rest of you, somebody who's listening. But it's really significant because the purpose of God for our lives is a knowable thing. God says in Jeremiah... Pray to me, seek me. If you'll seek me, you'll find me. If you search for me with all your heart. I mean, it's as if God's saying, I know the plans I have for you. I won't keep a secret, but pursue me, and I'll share that with you. So that phraseology really also spoke to the influences of people like, well, exhorting and encouraging, that'd be my tip of the spear, probably spiritual gift. But then you have things like, God has not changed. Now, that concept, an unchanging God who still does the stuff, He's still the biggest, baddest bear in the woods. He's still the omnipotent, loving Father. There is no fist fight going on between Him and the devil. There is one guy, and that was from George Mueller. That was the influence of a guy who in 1996 had given me a little book on George Mueller, which blew my mind about the power of God. And then there was stuff going on about the city and things that had influenced me. I first started becoming aware of the idea of city transformation. I'd heard about things taking place in other cities that were an astonishment. And a lot of that was stemming out of I was running a juvenile division, and the big fight we were having in that era was would DHS let the church be involved in their work? And the answer was no. know right then. So me and a guy named Roger Stewart, who would later become a SALLT alum as well, we were the pain in the backside of DHS because they couldn't handle it. So this idea of letting the church becoming relevant and significant, the church becoming the answer to the challenges of the community when so much of the church was siloed. And if you showed up in their church, I mean, this was the stuff going on in the 90s. And still going on to a degree, but the awareness is much different. So all of these things came together, but what they didn't say anything about was the fact that I'm a practicing lawyer. But what would be so fascinating in the construct of the Lord is that it would later become the foundation of what would be SALLT. And so a lot of people listening today, they have this burden, this passion that's on them in some way, and they should pay attention to that. Because if the Lord sends us, as you know, on purpose, and if you have this weird passion, you need to pay attention to it because the Lord's willing to clue you in and get you on track. So... There's my simple answer. How about that for 30 minutes? We're done. Show over.
Well, I can see how your personal mission led you to create. Or invite. Actually, what it was, was inviting some other leaders in Oklahoma City, men and women, on a journey of investigation of how might we respond to what we saw going on in the culture. How would you encourage other leaders who might be thinking, hey, I have this song in my heart. How would I... go about creating this mission. They're like simple questions that they can ask themselves. You know, you just, you start here. You ask the Holy Spirit to speak into it because I'm sure that your personal mission has evolved over time. Yeah. And so it's, you belted it out like, you know, you've been saying it, you know, over and over, which you have, but I'm sure that didn't come out that way. So where would somebody stop?
Saturday nights, watch Messages. There you go. Catch the reruns.
So I've been saying the same statement for 25, 26 years. What has been a learning and a venture into the mystery of God as he unpacks these things is understanding what does that mean? How does that manifest itself? Because You want your Lord, you know, exhorting and encouraging people and an unchanging God. Okay, so what is that like? Is that like I'm supposed to become a pastor or a preacher or something like that? I mean, what does that mean? And what I've discovered is that, and what I'm telling you, this is probably one of the biggest things. Now, I'm slow, but I'm steady. And what I've really come to understand is that, I think I am going from the place of being the guy that thinks he has to make it happen to being the guy that is... really just trying to rest in God. He's told me this so many times in so many different ways, and yet my probably both personality is, you know, type A, but then also westernized Christianity. I mean, as you know, there's an extra verse they've added to the Bible, which is if it's going to be, it's up to me. Or, oh, what's the other one? Anyway, it'll come to me.
Everything is performance-oriented. If you want God, you do this. You get it done. And when you need backup, blow your whistle and then God comes. That's not the way it runs. I mean, and from the very beginning, he's, I mean, what's embarrassing is he's told me this for a long time. But my mindset was that, no, the Lord needs my, you know, he says, here, I'm putting my hand up. Here, put your foot in this, Lord, I'll help you get up over the wall. But really, it's a function of, it's more of a contemplative listening to God, hanging out with the Lord, and just pursuing Him. And He does, He opens up the opportunities, He opens the doors. I mean, and part of that opening the door may be like with me, and it's not uncommon, is that, okay, I lost an election. That was actually not a door slamming shut. It was an opening, having now been through more of a preparatory, a passion for leaders. In fact, that's the second piece, Ingrid, that would come after almost a six-year stint in a long-term fistfight as the district attorney here. But I left with a passion. I wanted to help leaders to stop looking at themselves as leaders who just happen to be Christian, but rather as Christian leaders assigned by God to their sphere of influence, business, government, education, whatever. And if so, what are you going to do about that if you've been assigned there? So that really... But, man, I make that harder. We make that. We, as God's kids, we make that hard thinking. We just got to angst our way into this, and that's just not the way it works.
I love something that you said that I think everybody, myself included, needs to hear is that you said, I've been saying the same statement this whole time, but there's been different levels to that. Yes. And I think it's easy with our performance mentalities that I mean, to understand that there's levels to it. Yes. And there's always a deeper understanding of the same thing. Yes, exactly. And I think as leaders, especially sometimes we think, oh, I should know this by now. I should know this. But there's something about the progression of following Jesus that the same thing continues to open up new understandings. Maybe somebody here is like, man, I keep running into this same thing. Well, I mean, if you're making the same mistakes, let's look at that. But at the same time, The Lord reveals greater revelation of the same thing to us as we mature in Him. That's not always you messing up.
But that's so true. And I heard someone explain this really beautifully not very long ago. You know, we deal a lot with, we talk a lot about worldview, but we think about it within the context of Christian worldview. And then you ask the question, which version of Christian? Which denominational version? And so Christian versus Islamic or this or that or one thing or another. But this is really a different deal. And so when you talked about that, in one kind of scarcity mindset, we're all about certainty and being perfectionist and all this stuff and not wanting to get it wrong. And over here, it's about mystery. And failure being a part of the learning journey. And that's all gift. And it's just a different hoist.
But we don't have control of that. That's the big deal. But we don't have control of that. You are so spot on on that. This is like, the Lord just never stops. I hate to break it to the listener, but he just never stops peeling our onion. And that control thing, in fact, just to give myself up really, and maybe I'll get some points with my wife on this. Yeah. So I'm having this, the Lord has really been on me, even about my calendar, my schedule. And so one morning we're having this little dialogue, and he's always so sweet. He's always so nice. He never shames you. He can be very direct. But I'm noticing, well, Lord, I... Yeah, I can see I'm not doing a very good job about, I know you're willing to keep my calendar. And he said, no, you're really not. And I said, well, why do you think that? Well, you're kind of a controlling fellow. What? Controlling? I'm not sure I believe that. And then I made the mistake of telling him, honey, the Lord let me know that I can be kind of a controlling person. And she's like. He says, you don't know that? And so, wow. And so this peeling, the Lord, I mean, he's so faithful to just keep. And then so that's a part of, you know, understanding what does that look like today at my age today? But how was he doing it when I was, you know? 40ish 43, maybe when I first did that. And so, but I've always been on that same journey, but he's had different revelation of how I walk in that. And that's been an amazing for all of us. That's our common, that's the common gift he gives us. Absolutely. Yeah.
As we're talking about this, this progression and evolution and, that God takes us through, how did you know that it was time to move from one season to another season?
The first time I ever noticed this happening was actually when I was a prosecutor and I was sensing The grace of God. I was running the Juvenile Vision. It was the most enjoyable job I'd ever had and really many interesting jobs in that context. But I just, there was something difficult to articulate, but it was like... I likened it to that imagery of when the Lord is leaving the Israelites and they would camp and there would be the cloud, the pillar of the cloud and the fire and all that. And then when it was time to leave, the cloud would lift and it would move. And I noticed for the first time, and I found this to be rather consistent, that the cloud was lifting on the grace and joy I was feeling in a particular role within that context as a prosecutor. And I literally, and that would be the summer of 2001, I wrote in my journal in the spring, something's going to change this summer. And I was literally thinking about pursuing a job out of prosecution, out of being a lawyer. But instead, by the grace of God, the DA quits and I become the DA. within the context of SALLT. So for a period of time, so from 2008 to, gosh, for several years, I was just very involved. And I remain involved in the teaching, but at that time, helping, working with Nathan Miller to develop a curriculum and Tom Hill and just a lot of, really just kind of trying to put some skin and bones on what is this salt thing. And so in that role was one thing. What I started realizing, and I told the board this several years ago at a board meeting, I said, I think that the Lord is moving me, my role, because I feel the grace of Now, it doesn't mean I don't love this and I'm still not going to be involved, but I know within the context of my walk with God, He's shifting my role from primary focus, SALLT, the organization, to the move of God taking place in a city, which has been referred to as city transformation. That's a term of art that's used all over the place, as long as you get on the same page on what does that look like. And so that shift was no different than the grace lifting from working years ago. And I think that's how people... That's one thing that people can be attentive to. We have a... The Lord is living within us. We have the mind of Christ. We... And so consequently, being attentive to these different, start to inquire, why am I feeling like this? And ask God, why am I feeling like this? And he'll answer you. He will respond.
Well, let me just ask this question then. One of the tenets of our curriculum is hearing the voice of God. How do you hear the voice of God in your own life? For those out there who might be thinking, I think the Lord speaks to me, but I'm not sure. How do they gain that confidence that they are hearing the voice of the Lord rightly?
A little trial and error. So in 2005, I just noticed that someone at once said, when you want to try to learn whether it's the voice of the Lord, be obedient. And if it's telling you to do something that's not like, obviously not... I mean, the Lord is not gonna tell you to go rob a bank. Yeah, rob a bank. Yeah, I mean, they're not gonna... I mean, I'm sorry. But it's follow the prompts. It's time for you to be rich. Go rob a bank. Yeah, go rob a bank. That's right. I've got some money for you, son. That's right. I stored it over there. Yeah, yeah. So do not go stupid on this.
Yeah. But it is...God's kids recognize His voice, but even the baby in a child's womb comes to understand the voice of her mother, you know? And so, there is a process. And you'll learn over time that, I mean, as the Bible says, you know, God speaks through creation. I have sensed the presence of God on a trout stream and gotten weepy over him just in that scenario. But bottom line is that it really is a process, and you want to do it in community. You want to have wise people. people with you, and you want to share these, especially when you're getting going, trying to, is that the Lord? Share that with a trusted individual and get their insight. And here's the deal. The Lord's not going to... He is so loving. What I have learned is, and this has been part of that progression as well, in all honesty, You know, at first I didn't want to bother him because you think this is so below his pay grade. I've had God speak to me in these wild circumstances. I was on a...to give you an example of how much he loves us. I was on a pond in a float tube fishing in a pond that I had fished many times and had never failed. Almost the moment you get in the water, you throw it in, the fish are after you. I had been on this water for over an hour, and I may as well have been fishing in my bathtub. There was nothing there. And so there I am, and I hear in my head, I wasn't thinking about it, I hear, cast toward the shore. Now, I'm in a round pond, but I could tell it's not the pond. I was kind of close up, so I wasn't going to cast this, you know, five feet. But I knew, I just intuited I was supposed to turn my tube around and cast in the other direction. I obeyed that, and the moment that fly hit the water, boom, a fish on it for the very first time. Now, that sort of thing has happened any number of different ways in different times. And it's like, my daddy loves me so much. I knew that. I knew that. I had heard the voice of God speaking to me because I'm sorry, what are the odds? Just do the math. And so those sort of things, he's always encouraging us. And you should expect that he will encourage you. Now, I will say this, something, I mean, it's a way broader subject. So let me just kind of wrap on this. Pursue him and just ask him questions. Just ask him questions. Ask if you're feeling a niggling fear to do something. Just ask you, Lord, what am I... What am I believing? What is it about this fear that I am believing that I should understand? And he will answer these things. But a good cork... in the bottle is when you're eating up with unforgiveness. You're not being obedient like that. I mean, I've heard this many times that you're really, this is a relationship. And you're cultivating that with your heavenly Father, the Lord speaks and He will be your guide to that, but do it in community so that you can have a sense of confidence on maybe, okay, I don't think He told you to buy the red Cadillac.
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